@wolfi @cathal @douginamug
(major) will come by working with the soil as a highly complex living ecosystem, that includes the plants, and us.
Science is understanding more and more.
Lots of spraying (which tends to be part of GMO regimes) arent good because they do significant damage to the soil microbiome as does ploughing/other tillage (which is generally used for weed control in organic systems) Big Ag recognises this and is promoting no-till while also heavily investing in the search for

@dazinism @wolfi @douginamug And, as to farming affecting the microbiome.. Growing crops by any method is not remotely "natural", by the poor definition used in modern discourse. Alternatively, all methods, all of them, are equally "natural". Accepting that makes it easier to reason about methods of harm reduction.

@cathal @wolfi @douginamug
I agree about 'natural'.
What even is 'natural'.
All life forms, including humans have effects on other organisms in the ecosystem.
Humans have a big effect, particularly thru agriculture, although its increasingly being recognised that ecosystems previously thought of as largely unaffected by humans have been influenced by humans tending and encouraging plants that are useful.

Whats clearly very bad
fungicides and tillage both wipe out fungi that is crucial for

@cathal @wolfi @douginamug
a healthy soil. Most agricultural soils are heavily depleted in fungi. Fungi perform loads of functions in soil which are advantageous to plant health. They break stuff up into forms plants can absorb. Form relationships with plants where they take sugars and give water, minerals, nutrients. Guard against pests and disease. Facilitate inter plant communication... When you study its pretty mind blowing. We constantly learning more & much more to learn.

@dazinism @wolfi @douginamug I'm aware, we studied arbuscular and rhizosphere symbioses in my bachelors :) Monoculture of any kind will deplete soil biodiversity though. However, I'm with you on thinking that spray antifungal are the devil. Pity they're used in Organic, too. No mainstream farming practise eliminates them, yet. But, blight resistance is a keystone next-gen GE trait, so some hope on horizon.

@cathal depends what you consider mainstream.

I don't like industrialised ag of any type.

Would prefer ag with little/no inputs. Growing diverse crops. Lots of perennials & tree crops. Little tillage, constant living ground cover.

Im not anti-tech.
Eg. I think drones may offer a good way of moving away from using heavy tractors.

Many Non GM blight resistant potatoes are now available.
Most agree they don't taste as good though. But breeding is ongoing and flavor improvement is happening

@cathal @douginamug @wolfi

I think the way forward is to work on the social/economic side of food production, work hard to enable people to be involved, joining with other people, growing their own food, that may not be 'hands in the soil' but some involvement, ownership and understanding.

Developing methods which build soil rather than deplete it. Arguably achievable.

Much wider variety of trees, perennials & annuals. Much more mixed up.

Much less heavy machinery and external inputs.

@wolfi @cathal @douginamug microorganisms that are beneficial for commercial crop growth so that they can wrap them in intellectual property (possibly GM them) and market them as demand for chems fall as it becomes clearer that they really arent a good idea. The whole of science has a tiny understanding of microbiome/plan/human added input interactions, but stuff that is being discovered is telling us we need to change from current industrial ag. systems.
Small organic farmers tend to grow....

@wolfi @cathal @douginamug using methods that are more likely to be better for soil health and, I think, are also more likely to be open to changing practices.
Bigger farms tend to be very conservative and follow the advice of their agronomists who have pretty much all been educated and have experience and give advice for methods that includes lots of inputs as 'insurance' - spraying against weeds, fungi, pests and adding fertilizer 'in case a problem may happen'
Short term that makes perfect

@wolfi @cathal @douginamug sense financially as farms generally operate on very slim margins (or some years at loss) and cant afford to risk loss of crops.
Thing is alternative low input methods that look after soil are turning good results. Think good soil stewardship will increasingly be absorbed into 'industrial ag'. Its already happening, just change will be slow.

My ideal would be a huge change in growing methods, scale, crops, ownership, distribution methods.
GMOs may make sense at

@wolfi @cathal @douginamug
sometime and under some circumstances but we are a long long way from using up far easier and safer changes that could offer *huge* improvements.

I don't at all like the 'we need GM to feed the world' argument. I think its based on terrible assumptions and is massively promoted by those who stand to benefit.

70% of the worlds food is grown by small farmers on less than 25% of agricultural land
https://www.grain.org/e/4929-hungry-for-land-small-farmers-feed-the-world-with-less-than-a-quarter-of-all-farmland

and how much food is wasted?

@dazinism @wolfi @douginamug PS, on the note of agriculture, famines, and feeding everyone: https://twitter.com/Botanygeek/status/935940540830535680 <- That's Borlaug's legacy. And we're getting better at doing it without destroying our surroundings. James Wong makes a great follow if you're on Birdsite, BTW: he's a food and agri advocate, with a strong science background, and he's a nice guy generally. :)

@cathal @wolfi @douginamug
I was interested in James because hes pushed unusual veg and growing food at home, but I think he's a bit over fixated on high-tech fix for what I think is more social/political problem.

Most famines happen under war or have major political/social factors at play. Bad harvests don't help but generally other factors are major influences.

Advances in medicine, transportation & communication along with a greater willingness to send aid to the starving has helped reduce

@cathal @wolfi @douginamug
famine deaths
The graph/chart in the tweet you linked cuts off at a point which shows a gradual decline. Looking further back the trend isn't such a clear reduction.

Most recent things look good. But I'd suggest the other factors I mention are more important.

@dazinism @wolfi @douginamug As far as scale and GE development/use though, you and I are on the same page. I've been advocating for patent-free, DIY genetic engineering for years ( https://hooktube.com/watch?v=g_ZswrLFSdo ), and I'm happy to see a few new publicly funded, patent-free GEOs emerge this year, developed natively in Africa, at last. :)

@dazinism @wolfi @douginamug You've acknowledged in one toot that "big ag" (ahem; "farmers") have widely moved to no-till because the benefit is clear, but in another you're accusing them of being staid and refusing to adopt new practices. :/

@cathal @wolfi @douginamug
I guess with my use of 'big ag' here I was thinking/referring to the large corporations that supply most of the farming inputs, seeds, pesticides, fungicides, fertilizers, herbicides.
They also at times buy much of the produce.

@dazinism @wolfi @douginamug Well, traditionally even the Right-wingers should be interested in breaking up overlarge monopolies (including Whole Foods / Amazon, who are much bigger than Monsanto!), but we live in strange times. There are "Big Ag", Big Organics, Big Pharma, and Big Quackery. The individuals in each market are still just that, though. Many may be mistaken, but most are earnest.

@cathal @wolfi @douginamug
This leaves them in a position to be able to modify prices to extract maximum value from farmers they supply to/buy from

@cathal @wolfi @douginamug
No-till / low till is catching on big in USA, its relatively new in the UK, but interest is growing. Ive been working this year with a farmer who grows 1000 acres no-till arable, he has for a few years.

Sprays a fair amount, ideally would like not to. But his agronomist always plays it safe - fertilizers, fungicides, herbicides, pesticides go on. Possibly a bit less than other farms.

@dazinism @wolfi @douginamug But dust bowl was probably caused by coastal deforestation, and "Big Ag" prevented, and continues to prevent, mass starvation. Look up Norman Borlaug, amazing guy: father of modern agriculture. Saved hundreds of millions (more?) of lives. Probably more than Edward Jenner. The same arguments were used to fight his work, all the way.